In 2023, two DEIB professionals and artists from Bengaluru founded an organisation with a name that instantly evokes curiosity. Amruta Choudhury and Aruna Ganesh Ram’s Breath Beings works with companies and organisations across India on their diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging efforts through an innovative blend of artistic and scientific tools. Their goal, they say, is not to give “gyaan” but to engage people in deeper conversations about DEIB. connecting with people on a deeper level.  We caught up with its founders, Amruta and Aruna, who happen to be business partners and life partners both, to learn more about their respective journeys and the work of Breath Beings.

Prithvi Vatsalya: Can you tell me a little bit about when you began Breath Beings, and why is it that you called it that?

Amruta Choudhury: Sure. We started Breath Beings about a year ago, so we're a relatively new organisation. However, Aruna and I have nearly two decades of experience each. As for the name, breath is essential for life. It's universal, and it's the foundation of all emotions. We're constantly inhaling and exhaling, so it's a continuous cycle.

Moreover, our beings are incredibly diverse. We're all unique individuals, constantly changing and evolving. We're fluid beings in many ways. When diverse individuals come together, how can we appreciate and accept each other's unique qualities? That's where the "beings" part comes in. Breath Beings was formed to foster appreciation, empathy, inclusion, and belonging for everyone in the workplace.

Aruna Ganesh Ram: Once we had the name, we got excited. Both Amruta and I are visual people who love to paint. We brought on board our logo designer, who is also a member of the LGBTQIA+ community. We wanted a design that was fluid, morphing, transforming, blending, and intersecting, just like beings are. Additionally, the logo of Breath Beings is inspired by the font dedicated to Gilbert Baker, the creator of the rainbow Pride flag.

AC: If you visit our website, you'll see that the shapes, design, and colours symbolise innovation and intersectionality, like two colours merging to create a third.

PV: That's so cool. Can you tell me more about what Breath Beings does?

AGR: We want to foster an appetite for DEIB, but how do we do that? DEIB work requires us to pause and examine our assumptions. We often operate on autopilot, doing what's familiar and easy. But when we pause, we can ask, "What am I missing? What am I not seeing?"

AC: Our primary focus is on cultivating an appetite for DEIB within organisations that are already on their DEIB journey. For organisations just starting out, we support them in building this appetite. We achieve this through consulting.

We have our own in-house diagnostic tool called the inclusion blueprint. We support organisations in tapping into the experiences of their employees from different dimensions of diversity. How do they experience the organisation? What are the perceptions that they have around inclusion and belonging? Specifically, what reality is like, so we look at all these three things coming together. I think one unique thing which we bring to the table is measuring belonging which I think is still evolving as a topic in India. Then, we consult organisations based on these gaps, or we support them with identifying these gaps and looking at drawing out very specific interventions. These could range from looking at biases at the time of hiring, or the entire talent experience life cycle. We design programs for various HR teams on strengthening the talent attraction process, for example. Essentially, we work with organisations on designing programs for underestimated groups, which could be LGBTQIA+, PWD, or women or women leaders. We have a range of programs around women leadership development, and the fourth piece is prevention of sexual harassment. We believe that this is the foundation for a safe and respectful environment. All of this is delivered through a blend of arts and psychology.

PV: I love the phrase "underestimated groups" instead of "under-represented." It gives me a lot of food for thought.

Moving on, I'd also like to know a little bit about how the two of you came together. I know it's an interesting story, and I'd like to share that with our readers. 

AGR: I think it was about six years ago. We first met as colleagues. It was diversity and inclusion work that brought us together! Without that, we wouldn't have met. We started having long conversations about diversity and inclusion, the challenges faced by various groups within organisations, women, PWD, LGBTQIA+, and so on.

We also met as mothers, and we discussed what it means to be a mother in today's times. Sharing stories, we realised that every child is different, and therefore every parent is different. This led us to think about the diversity in parenting styles and the broader implications for understanding diversity in general.

During this process, we became friends and discovered shared passions for psychology and the arts. We've watched a lot of theatre together, talked about psychology, and discussed films and poetry. Amruta writes amazing poetry as well. We found a lot of shared interests and values.

We also met as facilitators in the learning and development space. We were both looking for ways to make our sessions impactful and memorable, to ensure that people didn't just come in and go out thinking, "Okay, we've listened to some things." We wanted to make them feel something, to experience it. 

AC: As you're saying this, I feel like I should spill some beans. I don't know if I'm putting you on the spot, but...

I don't think we got to where we are today easily. We've had our fair share of conflicts, as our ways of working are very different. However, our love for making a difference has helped us stay together and strengthen our relationship. No matter what, we can't let our passion for this work be compromised.

The first time we met, we worked on a conference together. We found ourselves in leadership positions because we were both passionate. We took on roles that weren't even assigned to us. We were determined to make an impact and ensure that the 250 people in the room left with something. We designed collaterals, created fortune cookies for inclusion, and asked people to leave with a commitment and an action.

A lot of creative conflict might have happened between the both of us. But today, it's much more seamless and smoother because we know what each brings to the table.

PV: Given your diverse interests and backgrounds, how did your lives and work lead you to the space of workplace inclusion and belonging? You both mentioned a passion for bringing about social change, but why at the workplace specifically?

AGR: My corporate career started in the truck industry. Back in the day, when I was just out of graduate school, I was eager to make a difference. However, I soon realised that the industry was dominated by men, and I felt like I had to prove myself constantly.

But I was also actively involved in the theatre space. A lot of my work over the years has explored themes of gender, especially stories about women. Around 2014-15, I created a piece about understanding and unpacking gender called "Coloured and Choosing." This was part of a festival and led me to reflect on my own work and the intersection of my art life and corporate career. I realised that I could draw from each of these spaces into the other. For example, I brought ideas around marketing, branding, and design from the corporate world into the theatre world, and vice versa. 

I don't know if I'd call it a defining moment, but it was a seamless flow of sorts.

AC: I started working very early on due to financial circumstances at home. My aspiration in life was to do my job really well. I was a high performer, but I was also following a script prescribed by society. I bought my first house when I was 21, had a job at Infosys, and was a manager at the age of 25-26.

I worked in some amazing organisations and got good exposure, but the script never stopped. I had my child, who was born prematurely and fought for life for 50 days in the NICU. This experience made me pause and reflect on my life. It was the first time in 13 years of working that I truly paused. I decided I wasn't going to continue on the same path. I was a VP (vice-president) at the time, so giving up my corporate job was a big decision.

I took a break of 11 months, which was extremely essential. During this time, I discovered many aspects of myself, including a passion for coaching. I set a goal of impacting 10,000 women in the next five years. I often noticed in my corporate and consulting work that diversity was always equated with women. I found this problematic. Aruna and I believe that a "gyaan" (knowledge) session can't bring about the relatability or connection to this difficult conversation. We need to have pragmatic conversations about these issues.

PV: What is the importance of bringing arts and theatre into the corporate world, and how do they make complex topics more accessible?

AC: Humans love stories. When we see a story play out, we resonate with characters, engage with it, and question things. It triggers something inside us and gets us to think about our own experiences. 

‘Why did I cry in that moment? Why did I cry when the protagonist couldn't achieve her dreams? Why did I get angry when the protagonist was cheated? Why did I feel relatable when the protagonist was helping someone?’ When we start experiencing that emotion, we try to get to the root of it.

AGR: You're not just engaging with it cerebrally. This multidimensional entry point into the arts is also painting your own reality.

The stories we're telling in the DEIB space don't come from fiction or folklore; they come from everyday reality. You've seen something that a manager said to another colleague. We translate these into compelling moments, and that's why we believe that art and theatre are extremely evocative ways to talk about DEIB.

PV:  So, art and theatre can help you get in touch with your feelings, biases and emotions. Is it necessary for one to embrace their biases honestly to work through them? Can you explain how that works?

AGR: I think if you ask me, there's sometimes a thought that "bias" is a bad word. But actually, it’s a starting point. Acknowledging that we're all biased in some way, or another, makes us feel more human and imperfect. Knowing that everyone has their own share of biases means we're all in good company. We're not alone.

However, sometimes this bias is counterproductive or problematic. If we're not aware of our biases, we might think everything's fine and keep going on with our everyday lives. To become more aware of our biases is the question, right? How do I bring awareness?

AC: Yeah. I think I spoke about scripts, right? I think all of us have been handed over scripts about gender, gender-based roles, and how ideal managers, leaders, or employees should be. We're often not questioning these scripts that we've inherited.

When we make sense of the root of these scripts, we can distance ourselves a bit and start playing the role of an observer to understand our biases better. The observer is non-judgmental and empathetic.

If we play the role of an observer, we can empathise with ourselves and understand why this belief exists within us. Once we make sense of that, accepting our bias honestly is much easier.

AGR: And I'm reminded of this anecdote. Usually, when we start our training programmes, we ask this question: "How many of you in the room think that you are biased?" Everyone looks at each other, waiting for someone to raise their hand first. This itself tells us that we all know we're biased, but we don't want to be the first one to admit it, because then we might be seen as a bad person. But acknowledging that we're here to do the work itself is a good starting point.

Slowly, hands go up, and everyone feels like, "Yeah, I'm biased too." They feel very happy about being biased.

AC: Also, how do you move this audience to observer mode? You back it up by asking a question like, "How many of you are curious to know about your biases?" If there are two ends to this line, where would you go and stand?

And if you go and stand and say, "Hey, I'm not curious because I already know all my biases," then you please talk about it. And if you say, "I am curious about my biases," we build an appetite in you to access curiosity and know what your biases are. So very easily with just one question, we move them towards becoming an observer.

PV: Talking of curiosity. I'm curious to know more about some of the challenges you face in trying to make DEIB work accessible and meaningful to businesses and the corporate sector. What are two or three things you wish corporates could do better or learn more about to be more inclusive?

AGR: I want to start by giving kudos and acknowledging every organisation, corporate or institution that is doing anything under the DEIB umbrella. Just getting people to think about DEIB and have those conversations takes a lot of effort. Both Amruta and I understand the amount of effort, convincing, influencing, and navigating required. But yes, there's still more to do.

AC: When I was in consulting, I had an idealistic way of running DEIB interventions in organisations. Then, I intentionally moved to the corporate sector to see how these interventions work in practice. I joined Flipkart as their DEI leader and recognised the on-the-ground challenges that DEIB professionals face daily.

One wish I have for organisations is to clearly articulate the business outcome for DEIB in their context. This helps everyone align and ensures that DEIB is seen as a business imperative, not just a training program.

Another challenge is that some organisations approach DEIB in a very programmatic way. They focus on ‘getting everyone trained on unconscious bias,’ or ‘implementing a women's leadership development program.’ I wish they would start by listening to the experiences, perceptions, and realities of different dimensions of diversity in their organisation and then curate their charters, interventions, and programs based on those identified gaps. Otherwise, DEIB becomes a tick-in-the-box activity, and at the end of the year, there's nothing to show in terms of ROI.

For organisations that are already immersed in DEIB work and have a charter with clearly identified pillars, I think it's important to look at the intersection of diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's about ensuring that representation is enhanced for all underestimated cohorts and that this is linked to business outcomes.

I've seen organisations deploying certain interventions and facing negative consequences because there was no clear business outcome defined, and the intersection of diversity, equity, and inclusion didn't happen. Organisations need to consider how hiring requires equitable policies to ensure their success and growth, as well as an environment that supports them in being themselves. These three pieces must come together.

AGR: I'm just reflecting on what Amruta just shared. The word business, I think, is a very social word as much as it is capitalistic. A business brings together people from society, from different parts of society. A business, at the end of the day, caters to a diverse market, which is society. It creates economic value through its products and services, provides employment opportunities, and engages in CSR initiatives. Now can we be inclusive while we do this? Businesses are deeply intertwined with socio-political impact and influence technology and politics.

PV: Thank you for elaborating on that. Based on what you said – and my own experience working for a DEI Lab, without a B –  why is it important to incorporate belonging into DEI, and what does it look like in practice?

AC: Diversity, equity, and inclusion can all be programmed or achieved through awareness, observation, and action. But when we consciously work on DEIB, employees experience a sense of belonging. Belonging is a feeling. This feeling is about safety, vulnerability, authenticity, value, trust, honesty, and acceptance.

In the last three months, we've seen a positive trend towards organisations moving beyond just inclusion-awareness, and action programs. They're exploring training programs on fostering belonging within their teams. We're excited about this because it allows us to do actionable work. We've developed a "build-it-yourself" kit for managers to have specific conversations with their teams to nurture a sense of belonging.

Another conversation opening up with organisations is around psychological safety. So, I'm very excited about the possibility of conversations moving beyond basic awareness of biases towards creating belonging within teams.

AGR: I remember a theatre director named Anne Bogart, who runs the SITI (Saratoga International Theater Institute) theatre company in the US. She said that you can never create an experience for the audience; you can only create the circumstances that will lead to that audience having that experience. You can't control the final experience. 

Similarly, for DEIB, we can create the circumstances that foster belonging, but we can't directly control the feeling of belonging itself. It's an experience that people will feel. So, as managers and leaders, we need to focus on creating the right circumstances.

We can design workshops and tools that help managers develop the necessary skills, competencies, attitudes, and emotions to foster belonging. These include empathy, emotional intelligence, influence, and vulnerability. 

PV: I see! I'm reading more and more about people arguing that DEIB is against merit, both abroad and in India. What is your response to people who make this claim? Can equity and meritocracy go hand in hand?

AGR: There has been a lot of conversation around this topic. One of the things we keep telling each other at Breath Beings is that we need to reframe this question. Instead of asking if DEIB is against merit, we need to ask, "What is the merit of DEIB?"

I haven't come across a single report that says diverse organisations have failed. We need to ask ourselves what qualifies as merit. Is it graduating from a top institute or college? Is it enduring discrimination generation after generation and still showing up with courage? Is it the ability to number crunch or analyse complex data? Or is merit also about empathy, emotional intelligence, and compassion?

When we pause and try to diversify our understanding of merit, we can better understand who truly qualifies and who doesn't.

It's also important to understand that the idea of merit itself comes from people in positions of power. They are used to a certain status quo and may be uncomfortable with change. They may argue, "Why fix something that's not broken?"

However, the counter argument is that we need to change things to grow, rather than trying to fix something that's not broken. People in positions of power are used to certain ways of working, and change can feel uncomfortable. Being able to deal with a changing landscape is a core leadership skill, and it's essential for navigating a VUCA (volatility, uncertainty, complexity, ambiguity) environment. If one is unable to deal with discomfort due to a changing environment, how is that meritorious?

So, when we start questioning merit, we might realise that our understanding of it is unidimensional. This is something organisations need to consider.

AC: Building on the word "privilege," which I think we didn't mention, it's very difficult to acknowledge privilege. In our allyship programs, we often ask people if they think everyone should be an ally. Most people say yes, and then I ask why it shouldn't be a choice.

Similarly, do we believe that everyone can give up privilege? Probably not. But what we can do is make people aware of their privileges. This is a game-changer in this conversation.

When people acknowledge or understand their privilege, they can think about how to repurpose it. However, the biggest struggle is getting people to acknowledge their privilege. This is where creative formats can help. When people see themselves in the role of an oppressor, they can recognise their own privilege and consider how they can show up differently.

I think we don't talk enough about privilege. We talk about inclusion and unconscious biases, but not enough about privilege.

Interview by Prithvi Vatsalya. Image provided by the Breath Beings team.